tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post114537360660935527..comments2024-03-11T05:22:43.871-07:00Comments on The Caveman's Wine Blog: cavemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01524518542395367295noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-47955543782327562222007-03-29T19:22:00.000-07:002007-03-29T19:22:00.000-07:00Winemaker are the biggest sientists of all, but th...Winemaker are the biggest sientists of all, but they are hiding it! See<BR/><BR/>What's really in that wine?<BR/>New federal labels may tell us more than we want to know.<BR/>By Corie Brown, Times Staff Writer<BR/>March 28, 2007Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1167967921582672982007-01-04T19:32:00.000-08:002007-01-04T19:32:00.000-08:00Business Week: 2006 Best and Worst IdeasEnologix m...Business Week: 2006 Best and Worst Ideas<BR/><BR/>Enologix made the "Best" list,<BR/><BR/>http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/12/1207_bestideas/source/12.htm<BR/><BR/>Give the professionals a chance. When you slam the new you make it more interesting for winemakers, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1167881636931782302007-01-03T19:33:00.000-08:002007-01-03T19:33:00.000-08:00Business Week, 2006 Best and Worst Ideas. See link...Business Week, 2006 Best and Worst Ideas. See link below,<BR/>http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/12/1207_bestideas/source/12.htm<BR/>Naturally, if Enologix is the cutting edge it follows that convervatives will resist. The national media seem to believe that mathematics can do a better job protecting fine wine, and maybe, just maybe now, Enologix is filling real demand by winemakers to make wines consumer love to love. Something very interesting and positive is up, ... Give the professionals a chance!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145843293708017482006-04-23T18:48:00.000-07:002006-04-23T18:48:00.000-07:00Dino,You are right. Winemakers can be xxxx's. Su...Dino,<BR/>You are right. Winemakers can be xxxx's. Sure, there's a lot of prestige involved for a winemaker, as well, but there are a lot of folks who don't (readily) stoop so low. Yeah, there are things that are added to wines -- like "Mega Purple" available from Canandaigua -- all of the time. You are right, it's all about marketing. You are also right about additives -- there are other methods as well: adding other, darker varietals to a wine or using other additives -- manufactured or not. I remember working with one winery that contracted Mr. McCloskey's company. The production staff was constantly questioned for "not extracting the full potential out of X lot or Y lot of grapes". There are many ways to over extract color and tannins from winegrapes, but we all questioned how the wine would taste if we were to achieve "full color potential"?<BR/><BR/>Consumers make many assumptions about wine, and one of those assumptions is that wine is from winegrapes and not much else. I'm not sure that most people really think about what goes into a bottle of wine. So the only way to change these practices is first of all getting this information out to the winedrinking public. Then, if people are pissed off enough and voice their concerns, things will change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145743321110995702006-04-22T15:02:00.000-07:002006-04-22T15:02:00.000-07:00Can't a winemaker be a money grubbing a**hole? Th...Can't a winemaker be a money grubbing a**hole? The formulated (manufactured) wines that garner high scores are for people that drink wine for status not enjoyment. Unfortunately, authentic wines can also receive high scores, but Margaux , Lafite, etc fetch high prices without reviews, always have and always will. <BR/><BR/>I would worry about whether some of the high scoring wines are in fact manufactured. I am sure that most if not all of the flavor components identified by McCloskey are available in high purity from custom chemical manufacturers, such as Sigma in St. Louis, or are easily synthesized from ready available precursors. Who is to say that some wine maker somewhere isn't a customer of Sigma and is adulterating his wines to earn high scores. He needs to keep his investors happy after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145713905080197352006-04-22T06:51:00.000-07:002006-04-22T06:51:00.000-07:00Dino,I agree this is entirely a marketting questio...Dino,<BR/><BR/>I agree this is entirely a marketting question and if you notice I did not make mention of quality. <BR/><BR/>I think the issue at play here is how we use the tools that are available to us. I see nothing inherently wrong with the analytical tools that McCloskey has developed. What I do have a problem with is the way these tools (as well as other manipulations available)are used; to fabricate a wine to please such a small coterie of tastes, no matter how high in esteem you hold their taste buds.<BR/><BR/>The more people make wines for Parker et al, it follows that more these wines will become closer to the same profile. That is a slippery slope. I love the diversity that is the world of wine, and I hold winemakers in high esteem. As annette wrote, wine should be a reflction of the personality of the winemaker, not his or her adulation of Parker's tastebuds. If all they want is to make a buck, then there exist other avenues.cavemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01524518542395367295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145675917121218412006-04-21T20:18:00.000-07:002006-04-21T20:18:00.000-07:00This has everything to do with marketing, getting ...This has everything to do with marketing, getting the highest price for your wine. Laube, Parker, Suckling, et al. are, in a sense, market makers. Their palates are both discerning and consistent. They understand the "market fundamentals." Producers use their "quality scores" to price their wines. McCloskey has discovered through chromatography and regression analysis that their tastes are predictable and are correlated with a few components. I didn't reread this article word-for-word, but it seems to me that McCloskey boasted that wine was simple, only a dozen or so important flavor components. When you taste dozens of wines a day its understandable that certain flavor components will standout. McCloskey plays on this predictability in advising his clients. <BR/><BR/>When I started reading the Wine Advocate, years ago. It seemed to me that Parker was tasting Bordeaux wines against a chateau archetype. McCloskey has found a way to re-enforce some of those flavor components in California wines. To me this isn't about quality, its about marketing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145638792159045002006-04-21T09:59:00.000-07:002006-04-21T09:59:00.000-07:00Annette, I would love have to been a 'fly on the w...Annette, <BR/>I would love have to been a 'fly on the wall' for that conversation.<BR/>Billcavemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01524518542395367295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145589516058687482006-04-20T20:18:00.000-07:002006-04-20T20:18:00.000-07:00Great Post! Having sat across the table from Mr. ...Great Post! Having sat across the table from Mr. McCloskey myself arguing with him not only about his methods but also the entire premise of his company many years ago, it warms my heart to see this kind of wine blogging. Enologix appeals to winery owners -- not necessarily winemakers (I feel I need to emphasize this point) -- it is the winery owners, afterall who want the money and prestige. Generally, winemakers have begrudged Mr. McCloskey's presence in the industry largely because, as you so deftly point out, his methods and philosophy take away from the reasons that most of us make wine, anyway -- the challenge of making something wonderful and distinctive from a only a winegrapes and not much else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145439998992039222006-04-19T02:46:00.000-07:002006-04-19T02:46:00.000-07:00Ann,I know that we will survive. It was just amaze...Ann,<BR/><BR/>I know that we will survive. It was just amazed at how unoriginal some people can be. I mean, why even get in the wine business in the first place if you are going to just hunt for scores.<BR/><BR/>Leah was pretty hot too.cavemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01524518542395367295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145439450553704702006-04-19T02:37:00.000-07:002006-04-19T02:37:00.000-07:00Great blog entry! I do love science, but shudder ...Great blog entry! <BR/><BR/>I do love science, but shudder at its misuse. Trying to understand the components behind taste is an<BR/>enlightening exercise, but using the simplisticpicture it provides as a template to fabricate wine is<BR/>not. <BR/><BR/>These guys don't really appreciate or understand goodwine at all if they think they can break it down to anexact profile of variables. <BR/><BR/>Reminds me of somebusiness dude from Cornell telling me the same thingabout a restaurant at a food conference I was at, like you could patent a great restaurant. Maybe a chain or a concept, but not the best of actual restaurants,<BR/>where there are so many variables and most importantly such intangibles as soul, magic, and the uniqueinfluence of the people involved.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I just say No to the uniformity of taste, and making things for the wrong reasons. Ugh is right.<BR/><BR/>Off to enjoy the spring day,<BR/>Nancy H.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145418005059176402006-04-18T20:40:00.000-07:002006-04-18T20:40:00.000-07:00Man! That Michael Jackson sure has a lot of talent...Man! That Michael Jackson sure has a lot of talent :)<BR/><BR/>Ann - I think you make a great point. I'm reminded of a classic Princess Leah line from Star Wars.<BR/>Leah to Vader:<BR/>"The more you squeeze them, the more they slip through your fingers."<BR/><BR/>The more Yelooww tail clones that are foisted upon us, the more rebel/slow/artisan wine will pop up.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I still know people who listen to 'Hangin Tough' by New Kids on the Block. Oy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145402165139217092006-04-18T16:16:00.000-07:002006-04-18T16:16:00.000-07:00actually, isn't michael jackson considere the park...actually, isn't michael jackson considere the parker of beer?<BR/><BR/>similarly, there's a system like this in the pop music world, where a record label can pay this dude a ton of money and he'll run all the songs on an album against an alogrithm and tell the label which song will be the most popular<BR/>i know a lot of labels use this service because sometimes the song that hews closest to the algorithm isn't in fact the most obvious one<BR/>does this make pop music better? worse?<BR/>does it matter? because, with the proliferation of myspace and the resurgance of indie bands and labels, its still possible to find music that isn't factory generated crap<BR/>i can't believe i'm saying this, but i don't think this parker-rithm will kill wine, as long as there's people like us out there that prefer slow wine to yellow tailAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145381938029807852006-04-18T10:38:00.000-07:002006-04-18T10:38:00.000-07:00The Hasselhof is hairier than I thought, but very ...The Hasselhof is hairier than I thought, but very cute.<BR/><BR/>You are the alternative (at least one of them)my good fiend beau. <BR/><BR/>(and both guns and people kill people).<BR/>Billcavemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01524518542395367295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6706490.post-1145376725120230892006-04-18T09:12:00.000-07:002006-04-18T09:12:00.000-07:00I'm sorry, what were you saying? I was distracted...I'm sorry, what were you saying? I was distracted by Mr. Hasselhof...<BR/><BR/>Oh yes. I think your point about 'democratization of wine criticism' is huge. At the end of the day, most winemakers (or their corporate overlords) want to make money on their wine. God bless 'em - they should make some cash. However, with only a few well-known arbiters of wine taste (particularly in the U.S.), winemakers are bound to shoot for the palates of Parker & Laube.<BR/><BR/>I'm still trying to figure out why there are only a handful of major wine critics. It doesn't seem to be that way in other drink/food industries...For example, is there a Parker for Beer? For Cheese? I don't think so.<BR/><BR/>So I guess it behooves us more delicate wine loving types to try and figure out how we can make inroads with the casual wine drinker, or those who think wine begins and ends with 89 points and above...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com